Boeing Clipper

Discussion in 'Aircraft & Aviation' started by barry, Mar 2, 2006.

  1. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

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    Barry,

    I saw your file this morning but not look in deep detail. I looking at wing what you have problem and found some error at position you said in qoute above. there is some face what is in wrong position...just correct at that point and your wing will unfold perfectly.

    your clipper look great so far. you are closer to as metaseq's professional maybe i need to ask you how to make very good looking model from metaseq in near future and i never use paint function in metaseq before but i will look and review soon :)
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Member

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    Barry

    Glad to hear the basic concept worked.
    Like NOBI I am very impressed with your skills.
    In fact I was also trying to pass on to the general audience a technique that I've found to be useful when designing in CAD and using either Pepakura or rhino as the developing software.
    However in future I will obviously have to be more careful to avoid causing allergic reactions.
    I shall refrain from humourous references to Sacred Cow 3D. :wink:

    Cheers
    Maurice
  3. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

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    this is a position i mention before

    [​IMG]
  4. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Chine former

    I thought I had better strengthen the fuselage a bit so I added in this chine former should give a good gluing area anyway and hopefully help keep it straight.


    [​IMG]
  5. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Wotcher, bazzer!:)

    Great idea!

    Might you also consider (if you haven't already) a horizontal former that might provide added strength throughout the fuselage...might be overkill, but just a thought, looking at all those formers, I would think a fore to aft piece that attaches to each former might impart a bit more sturdiness to the framing, particularly if the model is up scaled to a large size.

    Just a few rambling thoughts as I get ready to turn in for the night....:grin:

    Cheers!
    Jim
  6. wunwinglow

    wunwinglow Active Member

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    Maurice,

    the reason I get a bit miffed with people who slag off Rhino is that usually the problem lies with the user, not with the software. If it does something you were not expecting, either you didn't use the appropriate tool, or you didn't use the right tool correctly, or you asked it to do something that was impossible; your appreciation of the geometry is at fault, in other words. (I use the word 'you' in a general way, not a personal way, of course....)

    Any mesh generated from any set of surfaces that are coincidental are likely to give problems when used in this way; provided the surfaces are seperate ( not seperated, you shouldn't need to move anything) the meshes should work; start welding and coincidental points are likely to get confused.

    So if Rhino is dumb, so is every other piece of mesh generating software I have ever used, 'cos they are all likely to do the same thing.

    Like I said, ask it to do something ambiguous, you are likely to get an ambiguous answer.

    Tim P
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Member

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    Tim

    I've joked about rhino I haven't slagged it off, so get unmiffed.

    More than once you've appeared to be inordinately keen to suggest that I'm unable to use rhino correctly so your claim to be using "you" in a general way doesn't wash.
    If you check your own tutorial you will see that even you were at one time confused when it's antics looked erratic. I had no difficulty in identifying the cause of that particular problem and hence my recent iteration of the suggestion to use sweep 2 rails. Incidentaly a "safety" precaution which you can also see recommended on other forums.

    No rhino isn't dumb but it's user interface is laborious and it's shortage of CAD tools frustrating, for me that is.
    If used with due care and attention it's developing (unrolling) abiliities are impressive and the only part of it that is useful, for me that is.
    It's cost is ridiculous just for that, for me that is.

    Now get the h off Barry's thread and start your own if you want to continue attacking me personally.

    Maurice
  8. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Boeing fuselage

    It must be somewhere near right it looks just as garish as the previous picture I ended up putting filets into each joint to hold the thing straight sort of. I spent about ten minutes dry fitting the nose piece with no success until I realised I was trying to put it on upside down. How far it get from here I am not sure.

    [​IMG]

    A small comment on Pepakura use the "Check Corresponding surface" otherwise you find the keel halfway down the side and it still looks believable.

    Please also note the obligatory former in backwards to add a little more colour.

    As to scale as my fingers are on strike it was the biggest fuselage size I could get diagonally on an A4 sheet.
  9. Bowdenja

    Bowdenja Active Member

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    Wow Barry! That thing looks solid! Keep it up man you are doing fantastic!:grin:
  10. NOBI

    NOBI Active Member

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    Hi Barry,

    excellent work...wonder how big of this clipper.
  11. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Wotcher, bazzer!:grin:

    She's coming along great...looks like a fairly sturdy fuselage!

    Keep at it mate!

    Cheers!
    Jim
  12. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Rough build

    Hi All

    Well it sort of worked (better than I expected really)

    For starters I am not good at building aircraft.

    There is a wealth of sloppy postioning of the points in meta.

    The keel needed to be 1mm and I think rather than loads of fillets I might just as well put in a full beam former and hold the fuselage square.

    I should have used the shipbuilding practice of glue strips on the formers the skin would fit better

    The chine strip worked well the horizontal strip bit of a waste of space.

    The back skins were a bit of a mess altogether.

    So back to the drawing board with a lot align vertices.

    HELP!!!
    Does anyone know of a drawing package which has a 3 point curve generator with no reflex curve they drive my fingers batty.

    @NOBI

    At the moment it has about a 20" wingspan and about 12" in length

    [​IMG]

    The nose cone I was quite pleased with in fact it was the bit that came out best.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The lump showing the cabin is just in the way and needs scrapping altogether chopped most of it off anyway

    [​IMG]

    The cockpit design needs a big rework or beating out af ali but it gives a better idea of the front.

    Think it's time to go back to a bit of normal building for a few days while I think. Anybody with any good suggestions please supply.
  13. Jim Krauzlis

    Jim Krauzlis Active Member

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    Wotcher, bazzer!:)

    Hmmmm...I could almost swear I suggested using another former before... (see post #25) :-D

    Honestly, it looks like a pretty darn good start to me. Just another thought, maybe you can break up the cockpit just a bit to get a better fit...it seemed to me the 3D representation showed it was made up of two parts, the forward part with the windshield and a second part starting at about halfway back toward the wing for the rear half that then created a cowling-like fitting over the midship part of the wing at the fuselage...clear as mud, huh?:grin:

    Keep at it mate, it really looks great particularly for a first build attempt.

    Cheers!
    Jim
  14. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Barry,

    The hull of the 314 has sections that don't match up well to the sectional set that most of us derived from an online source, including me. The problem lies with that set. I found that most of the sections had to be modified or just thrown out and a new set derived from top and side views plus hours looking at shadows on photographs of the actual aircraft. I took a breather after getting the cockpit lines to blend into the hull lines. There's an elliptical curve from the front nose section that blends into a hip just past the front windshield that then blends into the hull and upper fuselage as it proceeds toward the wing root. It has to be nearly perfect to the original or it doesn't look right. The following image is about where I left the envelope since last working on it. You're making good progress using the proto build to back into the design and with a few mods will nail it dead on in the next revision.

    Good Luck! -Gil
    [​IMG]
  15. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Clipper

    Hi All

    @Gil

    Now there is a proper drawing and thanks for the info. I had moved the crosssections a lot so mine is probably nowhere near scale more mark 1 eyeball. Your cockpit looks superb.

    @Jim

    Yes mate indeed you did and I did too but I only put a little one in now I think a full cross section is required. It will have to go in two pieces unfortunately as the fuselage side view does not allo a full length one as far as I can see.

    I'm experimenting with thin paper on the aft fuselage if it works I will post a picture I need to see all the errors hopefully.

    Thanks for the help both of you.

    regards
  16. barry

    barry Active Member

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    Boeing mockup

    Hi All

    I decided to finish the hull so I printed the tail skins on 80 gsm paper and wrapped strips of the same round the formers to make up for the awful cutting out etc

    @Jim

    That is a 2 part cockpit better but not right yet

    @Gil

    Hope you won't mind if I follow your method of setting out the cockpit.

    I put the window bridge glass seperately on the Type 23 frigate so why I tried to do it differently just because it's a plane, I don't know.Getting (got) old I think.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    regards
  17. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    I take from your description that the curves with edit points(on the curve) and control points (not on the curve) are causing problems (called control point curves). Rhino has a curve drawing tool called interpolate where all points are on the curve. I generally always use the control point curves as they allow better curve fitting with fewer points. They aren't that easy to become at ease with but once practised they become a fairly easy way of drawing curves. An interesting side point is that the mathematics that operate with Control Point Curves comes directly from the loftsmans spline used to produce the sectional curves of ships...,

    You also might consider getting a wireless optical mouse. They're fairly cheap now and really help relieve CAD fatigue.

    -Gil
  18. barry

    barry Active Member

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    ali surfaces

    Hi All

    Just messing about with a bit that is not giving too much trouble wanted to see if I could simulate ali surfaces (gets round transatlantic spellings) so I tried one of Tim's skins and Gil's underlying base colour. I think it worked reasonably well nothing clever just moved the surface around until it looked believeable.

    [​IMG]

    @Gil

    I will keep trying the external spinner in Photoshop, in the meantime I found a four point generator in Neopaint pity it does not have layers. It works a treat.

    As for the mouse I have an optical one on a cord which helped, but I need a plate hooked on to the side of my chair to relax my arm some more. Years ago I discovered having the mouse running slightly uphill helped as well, have to do something about it.

    Next question can I reduce the formers by 0.75mm using staight pixel tweaking, sorry these days I get a bit dim
  19. Gil

    Gil Active Member

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    Barry,

    The Aluminium looks good! Reducing a bit map won't terribly degrade the outlines but will begin to show jaggies if the scale is repeated several times. Best always go back to the original to scale up or down.

    -Gil
  20. barry

    barry Active Member

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    jaggies

    Good tip Gil unfortunately these jaggies are my shaky fingers mate.

    regards