around the room N scale shelf layout.

Discussion in 'Track Planning' started by pooka2hot4u, Jan 19, 2007.

  1. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    hi guys. its me again with yet another track plan.
    instead of posting it in the n scale forum i will post it here because i just want some feed back on the plan itself.

    it is going to be a module which will run around the walls of my room. The different module pieces are represented by the red lines running through the layout.

    some info:

    Scale: N
    Size: 12'-1.5" x 4'-8"
    Track: Atlas code 80 snap track
    Turns: minimum 9.75"
    Turnouts: #4
    Power: DC MRC Tech 4 model 260
    Locos: Spectrum 2-8-0 and any other steamers that may fit a 9.75" curve
    Grades: none

    heres the plan made with the atlas software.

    [​IMG]

    here are some of the points of it i would like to explain to you guys.

    bridge: this track going off the edge will later be leading onto a bridge which will be a lift bridge 3' 4" long. the reason for that is on that edge of the layout is a window. for now i am not planning on going further than the window but if i later decide to i will have a lift bridge connecting to the shelf on the other end of the window which will lift out of the way to give clear access to the window

    yard: the yard will have a loco storage and maintanance shed (the 2 left most tracks) a track to keep an MOW train ( the one track next to the storage tracks) and the rest will be classification tracks.

    it will have a reverse track also ( between the textile and food packing plant) which i need some help with wiring using atlas components preferably.

    any advice/suggestion will be appreciated. especially for wiring this thing.
  2. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    oh yeah i forgot to add:

    most of it will be running over a bed (most of the mainline and yard) and a computer table (the section with the bridge and furniture plant) which is why im building it in modules. so i can build each module on the floor or somewhere easy to build and then just put them all together over the bed.
  3. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    If you're looking for more operations than running around in circles and randomly switching cars I think you'll find the current configuration somewhat lacking. Try operating a train on this layout in your head and see how it turns out. For starters you'll want to find a way to lengthen the yard tracks on the right if possible; now they'll only hold about one car per straight section. I'd also suggest adding a passing siding in the back and lengthening the one up front to allow for two train operation down the road.

    Wiring is pretty straightforward. If you want to wire with Atlas components, something I would advocate for other beginners out there, I'd recommend picking up their book on the subject. It's cheap enough new but you should be able to find a used one at a swap meet for just a few bucks. It explains things very well, including the reverse loop.
  4. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    yea it does seem pretty bland when you think of operations (but i guess thats the price i pay for living in NYC and space being a comodity)
    maybe it will improve once i decide to extend it to the other side of the room (over the bridge) but i shouldnt count on that since i dont know when that will happen.
    i would like continuous running on it also just so i can watch trains run when im too lazy to control them. but thats hard since i can barely get a 9.75" turn to turn around in that space. i want to try keeping the modules at this width since its over my bed. i would end up hitting my head on it every morning
    ill try to see what i can do with it but its getting alot better since the first version which i never put up. basically the same thing but with alot more complicated and unnecessary tracks and switches. this is just a simpler version which cleans it up a bit.
  5. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    i think that the reason the switching seems to have no reason is that the industries have nothing to do with eachother so really it would just be cars going between the interchange and an industry all the time since the interchange is the only destination on the layout that would make sense for those products.
    maybe i should change the industries also so they interact more. im open to suggestions, but prefer they use boxcars/reefers, flat cars and gondolas. maybe a little bit of tank cars.
  6. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    i think that the reason the switching seems to have no reason is that the industries have nothing to do with eachother so really it would just be cars going between the interchange and an industry all the time since the interchange is the only destination on the layout that would make sense for those products.
    maybe i should change the industries also so they interact more. im open to suggestions, but prefer they use boxcars/reefers, flat cars and gondolas. maybe a little bit of tank cars.
  7. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    You don't need "matching" industries, just some rhyme and reason to how you'll run it if you plan to do so. I'd think for the time being you could make the "Interchange" another industry and the "Bridge" track an interchange. That will allow you to handle more traffic at one time. I'd also suggest simplyfing the yard. Put a passing siding on the "back stretch" as one might say and run the yard around the corner off that. That would act as a switching lead to let you work in the yard without fouling the main. I'd also suggest cutting back to three longer yard tracks and bending them around the corner a bit to add length. Finally, I'd suggest cutting down the "engine maintenance" area to just two parallel tracks. Remember that turnouts are the biggest maintenance headache on a layout this size. The fewer of them you can get by with the better off you'll be in the long run. As for the industries themelves, I see no problem with their location or their type. I'm actually glad to see someone devote two sidings to one industry. This helps convey the size and the importance of it to the railroad's operations.

    ~BS
  8. Russ Bellinis

    Russ Bellinis Active Member

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    If the squares are 12 inches on a side, the longest yard tracks are 3 feet long, the shortest are 18 inches. He is modeling in n scale. I think the yard is probably plenty big enough for the size layout he is runing.

    I'm wondering about access to the back corner at the bend of the "L". The distance measures about 36 inches which may not be bad if the layout is low enough. If the layout is up around shoulder height, or your are blocked by your bed from getting closer, you may have difficulty reaching the back.

    Is the reverse loop just for turning trains around so that they can head back to the yard when done without having to back in?

    I think your track to the textile factory is wrong. I would put the factory in a position so that the siding is on the other side of the layout. It might make uncoupling a little bit difficult, but as the layout is made now, I seems that a track that should be connected to the run around track accessing the food packing plant is actually coming off the other side of the world. You don't need to have industries related to each other on the same layout. Generally on a layout that small, two industries related to each other would simply move product from one to the other by truck rather than wait for the train to to do the work. I think you have the potential for some nice operations. For instance the furniture factory would receive flats loaded with lumber, box cars loaded with barrels of glue and boxes of hardware as well as bolts of upholstery material. Then after unloading the boxcars, they might be moved to a diferent track at the factory to the shipping dock to be loaded with finished furniture.

    The food packing plant might receive open cars full of tomatoes, oranges, etc, and then from the other plant ship out boxcars loaded with catsup, jams, canned vegetables etc. Most canneries receive their fruits and vegetables in bulk. By the time they finish processing the fruit and veggies, bruises won't make any difference. The fresh fruit or veggies packed in boxes or cases were shipped in ice reefers or now more often by truck to produice warehouses where they are sold to grocers to put out on the shelves of the local grocery store.
  9. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    Russ the run around is just for generally turning trains around. not only to get them to the yard. i think it looks kind of weird when steamers run backwards so i want them to have a way to turn around.
    Also the bed will keep me from getting close enough to the layout to reach some places. but if i really need to i can climb up on the bed which will bring me right up to the layout and it will be at about waist height for me.


    so far i think i should:
    1. clean the yard up. reduce to 2 maintanance sidings, and lengthen the yard sidings.
    2. add a siding on the back mainline from which the yard will go.
    3. ill think about turning the interchange into an industry and the bridge into an interchange. im still not sure wether i will expand past the bridge right away.

    russ you think i should make the textile siding come from the side of the layout with the bridge? im not exactly clear about what you meant by that
  10. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    Most of what I suggested would be easily accomplished with some small changes to the track plan. To add the second passing siding put a lefthand turnout above where it says "textile factory" and run a track parallel to the main between it and the backdrop. Tie it in to the main where the yard lead comes off now and make the yard lead come straight off the end of the passing siding.

    To make a longer three track yard shorten the reverse curve at the right end of the layout by one piece of straight track. Moving that in will allow for three parallel tracks to come down at the end of the layout. Place two righthand turnouts on the yard lead before it makes the ninety degree bend right and have all three tracks curve right along the right back edge of the layout. From the innermost one you can branch the locomotive tracks off and diagonally across the peninsula. That would give you two train-length tracks against the wall and a shorter one up front that the engine tracks diverge from.

    As for swapping the industry with the interchange at the left, it's simply a matter of aesthetics. It won't require any changes in construction, just a rearrangement of where the industry is setting on the layout. As I said, that would allow for greater traffic two and from the interchange and that would probably provide more operating interest for the entire layout.
  11. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

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    Since the curves are 9.75", the layout is steam-era, and I see no provision for passenger operation, cars will be short - boxcars and reefers 40', flat and gondolas to 50' (I'm not too sure about when 50' lengths became common for different car types - I'm a diesel-era fan). But remember to allow clearance to prevent sideswiping from cars on the ladder - much of the first track section on each yard track is unusable. The 4 tracks will still have capacities from 4 to 9 cars (I'm guessing), giving a total capacity around 26 cars. A classification yard should never be full, but I think that's enough capacity given the number of industries and the assumption that small power like the 2-8-0 will mean short trains.
  12. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    well heres the revised version.

    [​IMG]

    Some improvements:
    Shelfs were made bigger.
    The yard was changed now with just 2 loco maintanance tracks and 3 sorting tracks which were lengthened.
    Sidings were added
    And the approach to the textile factory was brought closer to the front so it wont look like its coming from the other side of the world.

    i dont think im going to do the whole switching the bridge and interchange thing though. i will probably do the second part of the layout over the bridge very shortly after getting this one atleast somewhat finished so i wont bother.
    also i wasnt able to curve the yard tracks around the bottom of the yard but i did extend them a bit and i think they will be long enough for just about any train that i will ever get to run on this layout.
  13. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    well i just threw together some measurements, and the layout will be 3' 11" off the floor. which makes it at about chest level for me (im 5' 8") and if i get on top of my bed it will be up to my waist which will give me plenty of reach to uncouple or clear derailments.
  14. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    hey guys any more advice? anything i should change? maybe some more help with the yard, i feel it may be missing something. maybe a place to keep the caboose.
  15. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    I see one on there already. The three tracks closest the backdrop are for classification and the two closest to the front edge are for the engine facility. That leaves one in the middle that would work well to store your caboose and assorted MoW equipment. The single reversed spur could be used as a switcher pocket or as a track for fuel delivery (coal, oil, or diesel).
  16. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    well i was thinking those could be used for temporarily storing cars when i arrange them into trains, it would help me reorder them. but im not exactly sure how a yard works. maybe i should change it to store the caboose and all the other things you mentioned?
  17. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    I'll try to ask this without sounding too much like myself: How could you begin to design a working yard without knowing how it works?
  18. railohio

    railohio Active Member

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    With a little digging I have found some resources to help you. Trains magazine did a two-part piece on yards in the June and July 2002 issues. They explain how yards worked across a number of eras and includes a number of maps. Also of interest would be Track Planning for Realistic Operation by the late John Armstrong which includes chapters on prototype and model yard design. Finally, I'd suggest looking at North American Railyards by Michael Rhodes. This book profiles a number of yards across North America. It includes maps and overhead photos for each along with a short description of the operations at each. Any or all of these references would do well to teach you a good deal about yard operation and design. Happy hunting!

    ~BS
  19. pooka2hot4u

    pooka2hot4u Member

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    well i guess i wasnt thinking about how it should work, but more about what i needed it to do. but i guess i should check out those books. now i just gota get money for them.
  20. Triplex

    Triplex Active Member

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    That's the purpose of most tracks in a classification yard. It's not meant for long-term storage. Dedicating that track as a caboose or MOW track makes sense.