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Discussion in 'FAQs' started by mrspock, Oct 9, 2005.
Would a double deck around the walls plan be good for a 10x10 foot room?
HO scale that is.
It probably work OK except for the helix. If you had it in the same room it would eat up a whole lot of space!!
i am trying to figure out how to doit without a helix
What about something like this....http://www.ro-ro.net/
Just a thought, but why not two separate layouts? No helix or interchange necessary.
I always thought that was such a great idea. I have a situation right now that would be perfect for on of those. I just don't have 4 big ones to dish out, right now.
What about making the whole room a helix? A hybrid. Hidden storage and a helix. A HIDLIX, HA!
It would really depend on your situation, but something like that could be done. It would push the layout away from the wall about 6 inches, however, it would still take up less realestate than a 5 foot diameter helix.
Then there's the issue of a duckunder.
Thats what i was thinking just step one of the upper levels out a little and let the train come up between it and the wall. It almost has to be around the walls because i need a least 30' radius curves.
What you discribe is simaler to a Nolix....trains gain altitude as they traverse the layout. IE: The whole mainline would be on a grade.
Just how much distance between the first and second layer are you thinking about? That's going to be determined by the grade. If you were to traverse two walls at a 2% grade, you could have only about five inches of separation.
From what I read 16-18 inches between levels works well. i was thinking 4% grade my challenger a fef 3's should handle that ok. I don't plan on anything smaller for locos. well maybe a hudson or two later on.
Yeah, I figured I wasn't the first to think of it. It seems like a practical idea, especially for larger engines and rolling stock. The need for a duck-under or one heck of an elaborate swinging access would be the major detraction (for this size room), but as in any engineering problem you have to take the minuses with the pluses.
OK, at a 4% grade you are still looking at using all 40 feet of wall space to get you up to the 16 inches. Certainly the cheapest, easiest and most natural looking solution
With my limited space I am planing on putting a staging yard on the lower level. With a little swtching and maybe a coal mine up top. I plan on making the layout in sections so i can move it to a bigger house later on.
Just a thought... Most Nolix layouts aren't a constant grade, but have flat areas at yards, towns, etc. Anywhere you have switching going on. Otherwise you get rolling stock taking a loooong roll to the bottom anytime you decouple them. Also, realize that _starting_ on a grade from a standstill is a whole different world from entering a grade rolling and maintaining momentum up the hill (more on that in a moment). So while 4% grade around all the walls at a constant grade would give you the separation you want, it might not be operationally feasible.
Personally, a 4% grade - certainly a consistent one - wouldn't work out for me even if that was feasible. For my taste, even with Challengers and the like, you'll limit the length of your trains more than I would choose to. I'd strongly suggest you find a way to "test" your motive power and rolling stock on a 4% grade before committing to it. Find out if you can run trains of a length that will work for you -- you may find that limiting yourself to 8 reefers or 3 pullmans, for instance, is going to be a recipe for disappointment.... Maybe someone in your area has a layout with steep grades?
Or, one thing I've done in the past, is just set up a long, straight track on a 1x4x12' board. Then you can "prop up" one end of the 1x4 to various heights to give you any grade you want. Instant grade-compatibility test for your equipment.
It doesn't need to be all that long as the ability to start on a grade is the acid-test anyway: I found 12' to be fine, even for testing multi-80'-pullman trains. Basically, if you can fit your whole train on the track and even have just 2-3' extra to "run" it, you'll get a good idea how it will perform in the worst-case scenario - sitting on a grade and need to start from a dead standstill. You'll certainly want to test start-from-standstill for your equipment if you're going to do a constant-grade nolix, as anytime you do stop, you'll be restarting on that grade...
Overall, I would have to fall in with those who mentioned a two-decks, two-layouts arrangement where they are not physically connected.
I did see a quite nice solution to that situation. A friend had a two-deck, non-connected layout. The upper level was logging and mining, and terminated into hidden staging. On the lower level, he had one logging and one mining train identical to the two he ran "upstairs", held in that level's hidden staging. So the logging train, for instance, disappeared into the tunnel on the upper level and a few minutes later "reappeared" on the lower level. Just a thought on how two physically not-connected decks don't have to be "not connected".
Though it was amusing on all-too-frequent occasions when he would unload the logging train on the lower level, forget to unload the one in staging on the upper level, and have logs 'magically reappear' when the train 'returned' to the upper level.
MR ran an article a while back about creating a train elevator using drawer slides to keep everything in alignment.
UPDATE - It's in Great Model Railroads 2001.
You could make the area next to the wall a double helix which would give you a 2% grade. Then you put two narrow flat layouts in front of the double helix. If you build the shelf layout 12 inches wide and use removable building flats for industries, the whole layout should be no wider than 18 inches. If you "short cut" the corners to make them a bigger radius, you could duck under to get to the back of the layout in the corners if needed to rerail rolling stock. Actually, you could build the double helix on a shelf 4 inches wide which would allow the sceniced layout to be 14 inches or so.
Something like THIS might fit your needs. It's expensive. but it or something similar mounted out of sight would give the illusion that both levels are connected. If you lose the link it, it's on my links page in my signature under Hobby Shops.
I think that Russ might be on to something there.... A continuous helix around the walls, hidden by building flats and/or scenery. At appropriate spots you have exits/entrances from/to the helix.
thanks to everyone for your great ideas
i am trying to figure out how to doit without a helix
How about a switch back?