Apollo Saturn & LUT

Discussion in 'Space & Aeronautics' started by spacecraftcreator, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Has anyone built the Educraft 1-144 LUT, Milkstool and Crawler ? Looking to obtain these kits and am curious as to a personal feedback on the construction of such. I am looking at super detailing these along with the appropriate LVs so it should be quite the fun project.
  2. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    I look at the CAD render, then at the model parts pages, and there seems to be some discrepancy. There is very little depth to this model. If you can accept this, and can "greeble" it to life, then you could end up with something extraordinary. The railings shown are pictures. The model makes no provisions for railings, it is a flat surface. If would be O.K. if the railings were flat, and they had set back the walkways, but they didn't. This means much reconstruction of a model that, in my mind, is not inexpensive. You would have to make that decision. I did find a YouTube video that covers the model extensively. I do not know if you have ever designed a model, but with this model, and some of your own designs, you could make an awesome crawler. AA decision you would have to make. You change more than 10% of this model, then it becomes a model which you in essence have designed. I say this because that crawler was paid for by U.S> Taxpayer money, so anyone claiming a copyright is treading on thin ice. It is illegal to copyright something paid for by Taxpayer money. They can copyright their interpretation of it, but that is all this copyright does. You add all the walkways, and make a model, don't use their pictures, that can be made with Photoshop, or the Rendering part of any good CAD program. I write all of this because I find $16.95 expensive for what you actually get. CD's a cheap,, really cheap, and that CD is burned on a computer, not pressed, like an audio CD. So you are paying for what I hope is a pre-printed model, which isn't too bad. If it isn't pre-printed, then it is ridiculously overpriced.IMHO.

    Of course,you could go here, and get a much better model, 2 versions, early and later, for FREE, much easier to add round railings to, and make seperate track links, as you have to cut the EDUCRAFT ones out also.!! :)
    http://www.axmpaperspacescalemodels.com/CrawlerTransporter.html#.Vv9oiXqYjm1

    IMG_2085.JPG IMG_2088.JPG IMG_2091.JPG





    EDUCRAFT Model:
    spacecraftcreator likes this.
  3. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    On that site, there is a lifetimes worth of models. Glad you liked it. :)
  4. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Zathros...thank you for the input as it is appreciated. Yes lots of greeble parts and addons to be sure. I'm tinkering with designing so coming up with replacement and addon parts are in this projects future. I am looking to create the Saturn v (SA-506) on it's mobile launcher along with the Saturn 1B (SA-206) on it's Milk-stool platform in 1-144 scale. This is to be a long term, detailed project that I will be posting as it progresses. I am thinking about going with the AXM crawler as it will help to keep the over all cost down since I am looking at having to purchase the 2 LUTs and a Milkstool kits. That is why I am curious as to any previous experience someone may have had with these models.
  5. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    It never hurts to ask. We all learn this way. I like FREE, and since I design most everything I build, I can usually be fine with free. In any event, I have been gifted far too many models, one of which there are only 4 in the world, but too many to build in a single lifetime. ;)
    spacecraftcreator likes this.
  6. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    lol I agree that free is good....being disabled well that price point helps. Speaking of designing, may I ask what you use software wise ? I am very much computer savvy, but new as a designer. Open to any and all suggestions and ideas. Yes I have thought about designing an Apollo LUT.
  7. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    I am looking at creating some parts for this project and have a related question...what is the difference between GIMPshop and GIMP 2 ? What software is used for this ? I am new to this so I appreciate the help. :)
  8. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    I use Rhino 5.0 64 bit. If you are a student, or have anyone in your household who is a student, you can a a full working version that can be loaded on three computers for $200 dollars. If not, it costs about $1000.00 There were people who use Gimp, but I have not heard anyone mention it in a long time. You can do amazing things with Pain, and I have see people make incredible models using Paint. It just takes some ingenuity. :)

    Rhino link= https://www.rhino3d.com/

    p.s. you can download a 30 day trial that is fully functional.
  9. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    That's a name I have not heard in awhile....Rhino.. No student here unfortunately.....So how does someone use Paint to end up with a finished card model ? Does it have the capabilities to create a card model sheet ? Which version is it I ask ? Much to learn I feel here....:Computer:
  10. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Did some further checking on the Rhino and as an educator I would qualify for the discounted cost, so thank you very much for the suggestion. Education about the space program is the primary reason I use these models so it all fits together. Being disabled doesn't help on the budget, so every bit helps. So Zathros, you use Rhino as a design tool ?
  11. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    Yes, I do.I have used Rhino since it was Rhino 2.0. I have a small tutorial on here that will get you started. If you follow it, you will learn much in a small amount of time. It shows how to loft the hull of a sailboat. These shaping techniques can be applied to so many designs. I am self taught, I am a Master Machinist, Tool and Dye maker, and I programmed 4 and eight axis CNC machinery and robotic arms, fixture, and end mill design, at Perkin-Elmer corporation, I made parts for the Hubble Space Telescope, and I worked for 10 years at Sikorsky Aircraft on classified, and unclassified aircraft, and projects. I am self taught, hold no degrees, but can make anything I can see. Not being proud, just stating my past experience. I also was a pilot for a short while, and supplemented that by working on aircraft in an apprenticeship program. I also solo sailed a 10 meter Pearson sailboat with a 150 Genoa, and 5' 9" Keel, and a 50 ' foot mast with a fully battened mainsail. I have helped restore a ship a Mystic Seaport, by recreating vintage era tooling. I also had an Electronics repair shop for 10 years. I love Educators who are preparing their wards for the real world. I would be glad to help in anyway. Pass this info on to your students, so that they may purchase Rhino at this ridiculously low past. The N.U.R.B.S. ( Non-uniform rational basis spline) part of Rhino, is it's most powerful. That is why NASA used it to design the shapes of the Space shuttle tiles. It is used in most Hollywood C.G. movies, then exported to Maya or other animation programs. You have a program that will allow you to make a paper model, a car, or airplane, and I means real cars and real airplanes, boats, whatever you are capable of thinking, there is a way to express that in Rhino. Rhino also prints in 1:1 and you can make full size plans for bulkheads, or pieces for molds to make fiberglass plugs. It puts alignment marks to put the pieces together, and you mark the pieces with numbers to map it out. You can see some of my work in "Renders and Illustrations"

    An example:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The link:
    Link=http://www.zealot.com/threads/quest...-lofting-of-a-simple-hull.177940/#post-991725

    [​IMG]
    spacecraftcreator likes this.
  12. Revell-Fan

    Revell-Fan Co-Administrator Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2009
    Messages:
    6,064
    Likes Received:
    3,700
    Gimpshop is a special version of Gimp for those who do not like the multiple window surface. Gimpshop displays the program in a single window and makes it look a bit more like Photoshop, nothing more. I personally prefer the classic multiple window version. I use it a lot.

    @Rhaven Blaack succeeded in recolouring templates using Paint. I suggest to ask him how to do it. I guess there might be some tuts in the Tutorial section but I don't know for sure... :)
    spacecraftcreator likes this.
  13. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Revell-Fan ........thanks for the clarification on the Gimp and it makes sense to me, I do appreciate it. Zathros.......quite impressive on your career....congrats on all your accomplishments. I myself am an engineer (EE) who used to work in high tech at Intel before my disabilities forced me to stop. I worked with Rhino years back when it was being developed and am glad to see it's mature version is alive and well. In advance I apologise for any typos or wandering in my writing as well, some days are just better tahn others. Anyway, I'm going to check out your ref tutorial you kindly suggested and look to downloading the trial version soon. New question..has anyone heard of Blender and know anything about that program ? And yes this is still the topic of the Saturns and LUT build as this all ties together.
  14. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    I am still looking for the info about Blender if anyone can shed some light on it in regards to their use of it and how well it is in card model creation. I have downloaded the AXM crawler and am going to get started on the Apollo version that they have, so I will have some cutting going on soon. Claphands
  15. zathros

    zathros -----SENIOR---- Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2013
    Messages:
    7,693
    Likes Received:
    3,532
    I see people make amazing things with blender, but I found it so unintuitive, I felt that what I could learn in Rhino in the same amount of time did not warrant going any further. I also don't like programs that have to have polygons to work, or everything is triangulated. I think this lack of programming prowess to have to have an anchor, or datum point, That's why I like Rhino so much. Making anything is so clean. :)


    p.s. I have a bad Spinal Cord injury and it affects my posting. As long as teh idae gest acrcsos, who cares. :)
  16. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    I also have been looking at the Rhino website and am impressed with the support and learning tools for newbies. A very nice section of tutorials and such. Reading about it on WIKI now and am really leaning towards Rhino 5...guess I will be bit by the bug when I download the trial for examination and do want to make certain that I will have time to work with it. Also to keep this on topic for me so no one gets lost... LUT Apollo Saturn...there said the words :) Actually it is since I will be creating parts for the project with the software, so it's all good. :King:
  17. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Looks like for me my modeling time will be spent at the keyboard rather than with a hobby knife. My work bench is mostly packed due to a move we will be making in the near future after our house sells and our realtor said it looked cluttered. Hmm not a modeler lol......anyway, I plan on looking at ways to enhance the LUT kit so off I go.....I am open to ideas from others on this so please share them.
  18. nero-on-fire

    nero-on-fire New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    130
    At least to me, all 3D modelling programs looked unintuitive at the beginning, I learned some Cinema 4D in a course and made some projects with it, after that took a look at Maja and everything I had learned was useless as the tools were named different as well as the basic process even was different between the two programs. I had tried Blender some years later but got to the same problems (couldn't find tools, worked different then expected).

    As in capability, I think blender can at least keep up with the professional stuff. In the end you just need a "papercraft-prepared" object file to throw into Pepakura, right?
  19. spacecraftcreator

    spacecraftcreator New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hello Nero on fire.... So out of curiosity what tools do most people use ? I am looking into Rhino, Blender is available as an open source program...kind of at a crossroads so to speak....you have to have a capable program to create those files and then a way to "flatten" them out....over simplified ??
  20. nero-on-fire

    nero-on-fire New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2016
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    130
    I'm not quite sure what you mean because of the language barrier, I will give it a try to answer as best as I can:

    If you want to know what program the "professionals" use, it's mainly Maja/Cinema 4D, like 65/35 % (at least this was told by my trainer for Cinema 4D in 2010).

    At least from my modelling experience, no 3D modelling will hit the limits of a 3D program, neither of Blender nor Cinema 4D or Maja. I only looked at the Rhino website, and it looks just as much as capable as Blender.

    In the end, it will always be a matter of how well you are used to the program, just as some people build card models with x-acto knives and some with scissors. You have to get experience.