Airwolf Beta builders wanted

Discussion in 'Kit Announcements' started by Willja67, Nov 24, 2005.

  1. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    I'd have to look at the parts sheets which I don't have in front of me right now to know for sure but the wing parts you mentioned is either piece 22 or 23(step 7).

    I haven't designed any of the weapons for it yet. I have to put a little more time in on my flight school stuff so I'll leave that to others to do. I'm willing to provide the file with the 3d model to anyone that wants it and they can finish up(provided they promise to share their work when finished).
  2. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    I have to be honest and say that I didn't build every part of the model before I provided it to you folks to build(specifically the landing gear and rotors). Just today I tried building the landing gear and I have to admit that while I think it's probably possible to assemble it, it's harder than it needs to be. I have reworked the design slightly and will send that out to you all with a slight modification I made to the main rotor design.

    I also made a custom connecting strip for the nose. I hope by now that most of you are beyond the point that you can use it but I'll include it and you can tell me if you think it would be worth including in the final version of the kit.
  3. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    NOW you tell me....I'm just at the point of struggling though trying to fit together the last of the nose seams. All things considered, I think it would be a lot easier just to separate the nose into three totally separate segments. I'm spending most of my time fighting piece 1 trying to keep the portion I'm not working with from getting in the way of the portion I am trying to apply glue to. Other than that, the nose cone worked a lot better than I really expected it to before putting scissors to paper.
  4. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    I have to admit that I have a strong aversion to seems and that I try to reduce the number of them as much as possible even if not entirely practical.

    Maybe this will help those of you that haven't got there yet. Don't worry about the middle seem at first. Just connect the ones going down the sides of the nose and the ones at the very front. After all those have been done bring the two halves together. The beautiful part of this design (in my opinion) is that the fairing goes over the top of the nose seem so you can put the final connecting strip on the outside of the nose and it will be covered up eventually.
  5. silverw

    silverw Member

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    "Nose cone"

    Hey...
    I scratched my head for a few minutes when I first looked at it, but actually the nose came out really well..... especially if you were going to paint.....
    with a little sanding.... I was telling myself..."Geez...this looks like plastic!!!"

    Two photos follow...
    'before'... is just right off the assembly process....I worked the small pieces a little bit on the mouse pad, to suggest spherical.....then, glued klenex behind...twice...

    [​IMG]


    'after'... is with a little bit of sanding on the edges...... with a coat of paint now.... well, that where it starts to look like plastic...so, I quit!

    [​IMG]

    Bill...
  6. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    I'm impressed.
  7. Ziga

    Ziga Member

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    I'm also impressed not only by the test built, but also by your design. You should definitely design Blue Thunder. Both helicopters are worth it. Anyway it's simply GREAT job!

    Best regards,
    Kaz
  8. yaniv

    yaniv Active Member

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    ok

    here is my start work on this projec :)

    i start cuthing the main part but found thet no strip on it

    so i make my oun way

    as u can see on pic 1 is the main strip after cuthing the nois part
    (i will esembel it later with super glue)

    on pic no2 u can see the way i figer out the strip prob

    at start i glue the interery part on card bord 0.5

    after cut it out i glue som smol pices of card bord in the sheping parts
    (what i do is like to make 2 copys of 1 part like in the maly models)


    pic 1
    (main part)




    p.s

    sorry for the poor quality of the pic its make by MSN webcome

    Attached Files:

  9. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    And here is what I have completed so far. I have a feeling that anyone who didn't put on the windscreen before blocking off access by adding former 1b will have some difficulty. Without the abiliity to support the back of the gluing tabs, I think it will be very difficult to get a good fit. I understand the desire to minimize seams, but I suspect it will be extremely difficult to add an interior as the model is currently designed. I recommend "eggcrating" the internal supports by introducing an crutch piece to assemble the formers to (this would enable building an iterior, at least in the cockpit area), glue joining strips to the edges of the formers, then add the skin piece as if skinning the hull of a ship. This would still make adding the windscreen a bit problematic, but the doors could be designed to open, which would enable supporting the gluing surfaces from the inside.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  10. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Allowing the doors to open? I think that's a bit more ambitious than I ever imagined. I'm not familiar with ship building or it's terminology so I'm afraid I don't know what a crutch is. A detailed explanation would be appreciated.

    My own thoughts on the subject of the cockpit would be to add floorboards between 1a and 1b and also add a piece designed for structural rigidity at the top of 1b that would double as the overhead panel between the two windows in the top of the cockpit. All of the windows in the entire fuselage could be done using only two pieces. The winscreen, door windows and the overhead windows would be in one piece and the ones under the pilots feet would be the other piece.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but you suggest putting the windscreen in place before putting 1b in place? Sounds like a good idea to me. I did have a little difficuty getting the windscreen in place on my test builds.
  11. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    I might mention that I installed former 1a with superglue (something I normally wouldn't do, since it tends to bleed through a single layer of cardstock....as is evident by discoloration on portions of the skin) in interest of minimizing build time at the possible sacrifice of appearance of the finished model. When I was finishing up gluing in the windscreen, I inadvertently 'popped' the former out of the model. I made a half-hearted attempt to glue it back in place, but by then its location was so deep into the finished part of the fuselage that I decided it just wasn't worth it. The fuselage shape is holding quite nicely without it....however, I think that is largely because the windscreen is securely in place. I believe that bulkhead does need to be in place in order to hold proper shape while installing the windscreen.

    A crutch is what I've often seen a horizontal platform called, to which top and bottom half formers are glued to. A keel is a crutch turned on end (in the vertical plane rather than the horizontal). If I were attempting this design, I would have an interlocking crutch and keel that extend from former 1b back to former 3a (the crutch would "break" at former 1d and slope upward to intersect with the horizontal diameter of part 3a). I would make former 1b a single piece; formers 1c and 1d would be made as top and bottom halves, and would interlock with the keel by slots like in an eggcrated ship keel. I would then extend a platform piece across the bottom of the framework, extending from former 1a to 1c (this piece becomes the floor of the cockpit). The bottom of former 1a would be butted against the front edge of this platform. Once finished, this framework would be a nearly bullet-proof framework to which the skin could be applied just by wrapping around the frame. If one were truly masochistic, the crutch/keel could even be extended down the tail boom clear to 3a. This would virtually guarantee that the fuselage will come out straight.

    No pic of it yet, but I have added the tail boom to the fuselage. In the initial dry fit, the boom noticably zigged off to one side when the fuselage and boom fit with no gap in the seam at station 2a (the end of the boom was over 1/4 inch off the centerline). Trimming only about 1/64th inch (just barely a sliver) off the side of the tail boom was enough to bring the boom end back onto the centerline....proof that very small fit errors at the joins can produce some pretty dramatic departures from plumb. A rigid internal framework prevents such warps and wows from creeping into the structure.
  12. yaniv

    yaniv Active Member

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    out stending work darwin

    its looks like yours look beter then mine :)
  13. silverw

    silverw Member

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    Assembly 3

    Looking good Darwin

    I shared your concern about not installing the winshield, before 1b. I left it for later, however. I notice that you can probably gain access by inserting a rod up through a hole, where the nose gear mounts. (At least that is the plan!)

    I had some difficulty in getting assembly 3 to sit down properly on the fusalage...I'm not sure why.

    * Possibly my joint in the fusilage, at the top was not quite close enough, making the circumfrence over the top to large.
    * Possibly a slight misalignment of the fusilage sections
    * solution was to trim the bottom of 6a, to let it sit down lower

    [​IMG]

    Also, I found this photo of what we are building. I am not at all familiar with "Airwolf", so I found this useful to visualize what the part, that I am making, is supposed to look like.

    [​IMG]

    Will.... looks like you have done an excellent job in representing the real thing.
    The parts fit is GREAT.... my execution..... not quite so...
    .... well...back to the glue....later...Bill
  14. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    To be honest Silverw I think you are taking a slightly flawed design and doing an excellent job. 6b gave me grief in the two test builds that I did and even though I trimmed off the bottom a little for you guys I might not have done enough.
  15. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    [​IMG]

    A bit more progress. The good side is illustrated. I also encountered a bit of a fit problem with subassembly 3 that points to a fit problem with parts 6-6a. In my case, the height of part 6a is not the problem....instead, the parts are not wide enough to properly mate with subassembly 2. The closeup of the "good" side of the model shows what I assume is to be the proper fit of the two subassemblies. The closeup of the "bad" side shows that there is about a 1/16 inch (about 2 mm) mismatch between the assemblies. I think making the leading edge of part 6 and the bottom of part 6a about 1/16 inch wider will solve the problem. The height of part 6a seems to be just right.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    One last thought for the evening....as the build progresses, the model seems to be getting a tad bit tailheavy. I may regret not having put a little bit of weight in the nose before finishing subassembly 1...you guys that haven't put the windscreen in yet should still be ok. I may have to resort to sacrificing one of my 20-gauge shells and filling the nose wheel with birdshot.
  16. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    I don't really know what to tell you Darwin as my test build didn't show that problem and since silverw didn't mention it I don't think he encountered it either. Hopefully some of the other guys might be able to add some more input as to weather or not it really is a design flaw.

    I've put a little time thus far into designing the internal skeleton and I was wondering if anyone has any good interior pics or layout diagrams of the rear cabin area. There's plenty of reference for the front of the cockpit but not much for the back.
  17. Darwin

    Darwin Member

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    Looking at Bill's pic, it looks as if he also has a "ledge" at the join of assemblies 2 and 3, rather than a flush join of the external surfaces. I'm guessing he may have split the fit mismatch between the two sides, rather than I did by making the first join with the skins of the two assemblies flush. Getting onto the next step...the exhause nozzles are parts 13 and 14, right? And how in the pluperfect he-double toothpicks does part 12 mate to part 11? Maybe it's just because it was a(nother) rough day at work, or maybe I'm coming down with a cold, but that one has me flummoxed. Maybe if I get the rest of the pod formed to shape it might become a bit more obvious, but looking at the parts in the flat gives no clue.
  18. Willja67

    Willja67 Member

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    Part 11 is the aftmost portion of the intake. Piece 12 is the fairing around the exhaust nozzle and 13 and 14 is the exhaust nozzle. Hopefully the attached diagrams will help. Sorry for the poor quality but I think they will be adequate to answer your questions.

    Attached Files:

  19. silverw

    silverw Member

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    Assembly 3 mismatch

    I think that this is just two angles of the same problem. At the point where 6a contacts, there is no internal support in the fusilage, so it can squeeze in to be a bit narrower. But, in order for it to do this, the top of the fusilage is going to want to bulge up, slightly...which it can't do because 6a is holding it. Perhaps I phrased it badly, when I said that I "trimmed the bottom of 6a"... I really only trimmed the center part of the bottom...between the curves. I ended up with a joint that is not a ledge, but it is not flush either. The cross section of assembly 3 is getting narrower, as you go down and the fusilage is getting wider as you go up.....therefore, I think the proper joint, at the 6a point, would be a very shallow "V". I believe that's what I see in the "Real" picture.

    What weight of cardstock are you using, Darwin.....I'm using 67#, and that could account for some differences also.

    Part 12... I rolled it both ways and tried it on both sides before I saw the light. I think the L & R's are reversed.... or, possibly not... I just might have them in upside down!!!

    A couple of pics that might help.

    [​IMG]
    .....the "squared" corner of #12, is up, and closest to you.. as it's laying in the picture...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ........later...Bill
  20. allhallowseve

    allhallowseve Member

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    Hey
    sorry i a little behind on the build my job had me work on my day off do to some of the company big shot paying a visit i just new battery for camara i going take some pic and post later the only real problum i find was the one i state before the nose cone the 2 front part that where hard to stay glued i still have to work on the rototer adding paper to it to maker it stronger i plan on working on it later after i sleep zzzzzzzzzzzz

    later