STAR TREK DISCOVERY: BOOOOO!!!!!!!

THE DC

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Well, while on the subject, kudos to you for making a Rom War relic kit available; the transport you created.
 

zathros

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I think this is why this series will ultimately fail, you post explains why, then the failure will be blamed on non supporting viewers.
I won't pay a dime to see something that has commercials in it. The lens flare stuff is passe'. TNG was the worst of all Star Trek, with the exception of some of the Borg Episodes,
but they really got cheap when they blew up the Borg Cube Picard ordered to "sleep" thru Data.
 

zathros

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Well....they could always contact a group of guys who have a pretty good understanding of the Pre-Kirk Trek universe and finance their little Axanar project....but that would be admitting that the studio execs are out of touch (much like a lot of Hollywood)....

That could not happen in our Universe. Maybe in some parallel one. Rick and Morty may have watched it. I really love that "Cartoon". It is so well written and comes on free ;)


rick-and-morty.jpeg
 

subnuke

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So are we talking about starting a member fiction section? Definitely sounds interesting. I wrote a novel in the 90s that I never bothered to try to get published (not scifi). With the modern ebook world I thought about self-publish, then just making it freely available with my copyright (can't have some clown making a movie of it, though they violate copyright that way all the time). This definitely bears discussion and thought. Many great novels came from serialized fiction (Three Musketeers, etc.).
 

Revell-Fan

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TNG was the worst of all Star Trek, with the exception of some of the Borg Episodes,
but they really got cheap when they blew up the Borg Cube Picard ordered to "sleep" thru Data.
So you can see how opinions are different. :)

I became a Trek fan ONLY because of TNG and "Best of both Worlds". This is my all-time favourite of ALL episodic SciFi / fantasy shows; it even surpasses the best X-Files and BSG episodes. I know it by heart and could start quoting it on-the-fly, from start to finish. This one should be pressed in GOLD to last for the eternities. Even DS9 did not top it. Patrick Stewart's way of speaking helped me tremendously during my English studies and became very handy when I was writing my final essay on "Macbeth" (the greatest piece of writing I have ever read). Listening to "Trek English" made me start getting creative with English words and expressions and to "juggle" with them. (Then came "The Nanny", but that's a different story... Best scene when Fran got stuck in the elevator: "Mr Sheffield ... I can hear my own voooice!!!" - absolutely hilarious! :D ;) )

Okay, the resolution was a bit "quick", but even the writers had no idea how to end the episode when they started after the cliffhanger. It is an example of writers writing themselves into a dead end. Any conclusion they would come up with would not be entirely satisfying because the problem they came up with was ultimate. So what could they do? The easiest way would have been to let Picard die (which at one point was highly possible since Stewart wanted to leave the show). They decided against it and chose a different strategy: They let the characters tell the story and continously asked themselves, what would he / she do and say. So they came up with the "sleep" command. In fact, this kind of writing can be quite effective. I know it because I used it with my "Galactica 6551" stories "Experiment in History" and "Exodus". When writing that way you really don't know what is happening, you know the goal but not the way to achieve it, you simply let the story flow according to the situation the characters are placed in. If you do it right everything falls into place just as intended in an exciting and convincing way. It leads to a very streamlined way of story-telling. Please remember this when you read what's happening to the away team in Ancient Rome on Earth and how the relationship between Baltar and Iblis evolves, then you will understand. ;)

There were other situations where you coreograph the story in an episodic fashion where you want certain scenes to happen in a particular way. For example, in "Close Encounters" I knew I needed a crash scene at night on an alien planet. I wrote an intro as the first act (standard). The second act covered the crash. Then I needed a strange encounter which I described in the third act. Then we get to know more about the aliens and the overall situation in order to create some goose-bumps (act 4). Then everything goes straight into the bang boom bang spectacle (act 5) which is concluded by a short scene at the end to calm things down (act 6). Such a chain of fixed events allows the writer to jump between the scenes and to write them independently; so I was able to tackle act 4 before act 1 and so on. Because of the fact that I had the whole construction in my head I knew what to do to make everything fit together in the end. "Cyclops Forever" and "The Value of Life" are two other examples of that strategy ("Cyclops" turned out better than expected and even contained some "let the story tell itself" moments such as deploying a signal booster which leads to a conciliatory ending which simply was non-existent in the first draft; "Value of Life" was even more special since it is a combination of three episodes which formerly have been separated from one another; you'll see what I mean once the episodes are translated and published here).

Alright, enough OT. Let's get back to CBS and STD. Two things I never thought would be put into one sentence at the same time. :D ;)
 

paper hollywood

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CBS is reviving the Star Trek franchise behind a paywall not for the benefit of mankind, but as a business strategy. From that standpoint it's probably fairly smart, if not very imaginative. CBS is moving into the online subscription market dominated by Netflix and Hulu. They own Star Trek and a large percentage of the web's users are Trek fans. Use it to launch your pay service. It's just normal business for those guys.

Sadly, the future of "television" (whatever that is nowadays) may be, increasingly a paywall thing. It's too easy to miss commercials these day. These guys are scrambling for ways to generate revenue and if paywalls work, that will be the new reality.
 

zathros

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CBS is reviving the Star Trek franchise behind a paywall not for the benefit of mankind, but as a business strategy. From that standpoint it's probably fairly smart, if not very imaginative. CBS is moving into the online subscription market dominated by Netflix and Hulu. They own Star Trek and a large percentage of the web's users are Trek fans. Use it to launch your pay service. It's just normal business for those guys.

Sadly, the future of "television" (whatever that is nowadays) may be, increasingly a paywall thing. It's too easy to miss commercials these day. These guys are scrambling for ways to generate revenue and if paywalls work, that will be the new reality.


CBS does not have the library to support what they are attempting. This has been a general observation before Discovery came out. I think it's one of the dumbest things that network has ever done, the first being not supporting Dan Rather for calling that fool of a president Busch for the cocaine head, drunk, and inept person that he was. How many Americans have died for his bumbling, and his two years of doing nothing before 911, even though on the first day of his presidency he was told that Al Qaeda was the biggest threat in the world, and in that two years, he took more time off than any President in the History of the nation. If stations go to the "Pay For" streaming, and do not keep up their commitment to the F.C.C. they will use their License, and then their over the air H.D. capability. How do they generate interest for their pay for shows? They will lose advertising revenue too. Over the air, and Satellite/Cable isn't going anyhere's, not in our lifetimes. Pay For will allow some people to first see what will eventually be shown on T.V. anyways, someone else will step in to fill the void when they mess it up.

CBS blew it, unless someone else picks it up, will drop this series as being too expensive to produce, or will ruin it with minimal CG and dog it to death. IMHO. As soon as the I.S.P. providers start charging you extra for that bandwidth, you will see a double whammy, they're just waiting. There is a vast portion of America who's .I.S.P.'s cannot support streaming in any event.
 
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THE DC

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CBS does not have the library to support what they are attempting. This has been a general observation before Discovery came out. I think it's one of the dumbest things that network has ever done...

CBS blew it, unless someone else picks it up, will drop this series as being too expensive to produce, or will ruin it with minimal CG and dog it to death. IMHO. As soon as the I.S.P. providers start charging you extra for that bandwidth, you will see a double whammy, they're just waiting. There is a vast portion of America who's .I.S.P.'s cannot support streaming in any event.




I agree with you, Zathros., but from a different angle. Paper Hollywood makes a good point; that they were banking on desperate Trek fans to fund this leap. I have no problem with a business using a business model to make money; that's what business' do. I object to the craven exploitation of their mother country; charging US viewers while they farm it out to overseas through streaming already available. Screwing over those in your own neighborhood is bad business.

Additionally, Paper Hollywood is also right that they thought Trek would be a valuable property to lead the launching effort and that Trek fans would be loyal and pay. How arrogant and stupid is it to make a pseudo-Trek then. That's like opening a restaurant, hanging signs advertising it a steak joint, then delivering fried bologna to a steak-seeking consumer. I would love to take the head of CBS to dinner and then swap whatever salad that he orders out for a plate of possum and telling hi than he has to like it because I named it possum salad.

Bait and switch is not good business and serving something different than what was ordered by a customer, then telling them to like it because its all he will get, is not a very sound customer service strategy.

What made classic Trek episodes so lasting, and still selling in syndication and in dvd sets, was timeless storytelling. STD is angst-ridden, socially fixed, and far too much borrowing from other sci-fi trends than is original. Good writing is about choices that characters make; not how frustrated they are about the experiences that are thrust upon them.
 

zathros

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The fact that they may have relied on "Star Trek" fans to fund the rest of the crap they serve up through a pay for format disgusts me. I don't believe it's a smart decision. This is demonstrated by what you posted, and ow much the Star Trek Fandom gas belittled it.

The fact that it will be shown free is something the FCC should look into. That they showed it on over the air, and standard CBS channels sets a bad precedent. If they had no intent to show it, they should have never shown the premiere episode. They violated a fundamental FCC obligation to the America people. We paid for the infrastructure they use so readily. Time for them to pay up.
 

paper hollywood

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Yes, it's looking like CBS is setting themselves up for a failure with this initial online effort. As with almost all TV series, the viewership of Discovery will taper off after the initial start period. The paywall thing may add to this effect, especially if the show doesn't become knockout great. Considering CBS has always depended largely on them most mature demographic in network TV, taking on the youth-focused online market is a risky venture for them. They have one thing the typical web startup doesn't have though-- deep pockets. They'll no doubt keep it alive for a long time even if it limps along miserably.

CBS might surprise us and come up with some worthwhile origin programming at point, too. They quietly been buying into some more tech-oriented information properties in the last few years-- such as Cnet.com and Marketwatch. They could come up with some killer financial or tech-oriented things that might keep a geeky, affluent base paying for the service. Paywall Internet is very different from broadcast TV or ad-oriented Internet in that it doesn't require millions of visitors to turn a decent profit. In that business you don't have to dominate your competition, just serve a substantial portion of your market niche.
 

THE DC

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I heard a rumor, and its little more than that, that there is a behind the scenes plan to shelve STD in favor of a Nick Meyer's project given the unexpected backlash (only unexpected if your a network exec with long stretches on the spectrum) of Discovery.

The scramble plan is to claim there was only a single season expected and use another project in the making, as a replacement, claiming that the plan all along was for single-season stories.

Only a rumor but not unbelievable, given my experiences with entertainment peddlers (not too different from sex-industry peddlers, from what I hear)...

Bet they have an app for that...
 

Cybergrinder

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LOL, I just think it was doomed to failure with the acronym....

Guy 1," Hey, I jut got STD on blu ray!"
Guy 2, "You can't have, they're not transmitted that way! really, what's her name?"

'Nuff said ;) :hammerhead:
 

zathros

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Yes, it's looking like CBS is setting themselves up for a failure with this initial online effort. As with almost all TV series, the viewership of Discovery will taper off after the initial start period. The paywall thing may add to this effect, especially if the show doesn't become knockout great. Considering CBS has always depended largely on them most mature demographic in network TV, taking on the youth-focused online market is a risky venture for them. They have one thing the typical web startup doesn't have though-- deep pockets. They'll no doubt keep it alive for a long time even if it limps along miserably.

CBS might surprise us and come up with some worthwhile origin programming at point, too. They quietly been buying into some more tech-oriented information properties in the last few years-- such as Cnet.com and Marketwatch. They could come up with some killer financial or tech-oriented things that might keep a geeky, affluent base paying for the service. Paywall Internet is very different from broadcast TV or ad-oriented Internet in that it doesn't require millions of visitors to turn a decent profit. In that business you don't have to dominate your competition, just serve a substantial portion of your market niche.


You have to pay a 100% increase to watch commercial free. They are requiring you to pay for a show with commercials, then pay an extra premium if you don't want commercials, and I highly doubt you will be able to Record this on your DVR.
 

zathros

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stay away from people who have STD [star trek discovery].


Ha!! That's really funny. Personally, I think, though unintentionally for the most part, people who have signed into this have just contributed to the further redistribution of wealth in this country. From what's left of the poor and middle classes meager funds, to the 3 to 5% that own the bulk on this country. Don't believe me? Get out of your bubble and find out for yourself. The largest redistribution of wealth occurred at the Bush/Obama transition, where through derivative shares of worthless stock, millions upon millions of poor people in the world lost their life savings to shares that were so cut up and mangled together, no one could separate or figure who owned what, so their life savings were lost. We, the U.S. people paid for the RICH to cover their losses and the Western World got the bulk of it by draining the funds of the masses. China threatened to flood the world with dollars, we said, "Go ahead, we'll print 2 dollars for every dollar you put out", making China's wealth of American dollars worthless, yet, allowing American products to be now purchased quite readily with all those dollars, yet, America would have to buy within America, as that would be the only place where the dollar has any value. We just drained the world with our Paper Tiger. Paper cuts hurt, something Mao Tse Tung forgot, when he said "America is a Paper Tiger".

I hear people say they don't believe in income redistribution. That is a lack of Macroeconomic understanding, as this is the way of the world. You're only a member of the club as long as you have money. If you make less than $300,000 thousand a year, and you consider yourself rich, you have been deceived. (Rich in wealth, there is Richness of the heart, family and friends, which may not be measurable by dollars, that depends on those family members and friends though.) IMHO
 

zathros

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I have eliminated CBS from my DVR. I will watch nothing on that channel. That will be my personal Boycott. They don't show diddly anyways, so there's no great loss. :)
 

micahrogers

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Watch or not as you see fit, I for one have seen all 4 episodes available so far, and I will continue to watch. I haven't made up my mind as to whether or not it's a good show yet... unlike The Orville, which I dropped after the second episode...
 

zathros

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I watch "The Orville" because it is "Tongue in Cheek", and my wife actually sits through it. Personally, "The Strain", is so much more intense than any of these shows, but I digress. I would encourage you to give "Discovery" a chance, why not, you already have the service! I really liked the 1st episode, I think that's why I am so perturbed. I think eventually they will have to air the episodes though, as their financial model does not hold well, they don't have enough shows to grab a wider audience, and for that price, the DVD/Blue Ray sets will come out, and then they will be all over the place. There isn't a DVD or Blue Ray protection that cannot easily be bypassed to make your own editable back up copy. I do this so when I take my motor home out, I don't have to bring the original, and possibly lose it or have it stolen or ruined by some unforeseen accident.

Enjoy, please. My rant is just that. A rant. One should always do what they wish or want. This is just a forum, and opinions are like As_h_l_s, everyone has one.:mooner:

I found a post the other day, and realized that you and I go waay back. I mean waaaaay back!! That is really excellent!! :toast:
 
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